Game 3 Discussion

[Corrine Blackbourne]

Well, I'm feeling ill, so I guess I have nothing to do but start up Mafia game 3 now.

Player 1) Azzy - Student
Player 2) Roony
Player 3) Terra
Player 4) Dom
Player 5) Gwen - Roony
Player 6) Tibs - Student
Player 7) Malarky - Student
Player 8) Mury - Student
Player 9) Momo - Felix
Player 10) Orca
Player 11) Talon - Jesus
Player 12) Selena - Student
Player 13) TJ - Student
Player 14) Felix - Mury
Player 15) Adhara
Player 16) Sparky
Player 17) Lynn - Scorpius
Player 18) Davi - Talon
Player 19) Lucius - Azrael

Start your discussions here.

[Tiberius Spurius]

I nominate Mury for Oldie. Looking over the last two games, but especially the first one, he's made good arguments that have sadly been ignored and in resulted in the deaths of many. So this time I say we cast our lot behind him, and hopefully he can lead us safely through this holocaust.

[Davi]

So, I proposed this last game and I'll propose it again. I'm new to this group, so I can still be neutral in deciding about logic and whatnot, instead of merely being swayed because XPERSONX always/never has good/bad logic. I'm going to try not to be swayed by sheer charisma, but by an actual sound argument. So, I'm voting myself for Oldie and you should too, =)

[Azrael]

Not to mention he has also made good arguments that have gotten innocent people killed based on faulty logic.

Ironically, if he did get oldie, then by following HIS own logic, either he dies first night or he should die first day by vote. Look to the first lynching of Willow. His logic for his first vote was to kill the oldie should they not be killed first night, his logic for the second night was to kill Jesus. Why? No real reason.

Now let us look at game two.....where he only ever kills innocents. Daniel, your logic fails.

[Azrael]

I love you and all, Willow, but yer gunna hafta shush. I think I'm good enough at defaming Mury on my own. XD

[Adhara Naunet]

I think I should be oldie due to the fact that I am of no interest whatsoever and would like to feel important.

Plus the fact that I've kept my mouth shut for the last two games pretty much proves that I'm trustworthy. I mean, who've I voted to kill who hasn't deserved it?

[Romulus]

I vote Davi for oldie.

[Corrine Blackbourne]

Try putting it in the voting thread, then, Jacob...

[Davi]

Az, my only concern about you being Oldie would be that SOMETHING to change alliance will prolly happen to you this first night, whether it's a recruitment to either of the killing sides, or becoming a lover, etc and then you'll become all scheme-y. You already have too much sway in this group, so having two votes as well seems a bit of overkill. You are logical, but you also can twist your logic to trick any person you need to. I wouldn't trust you as oldie.

[Azrael]

Davi, my only concern about you being Oldie would be that SOMETHING to change alliance will prolly happen to you this first night, whether it's a recruitment to either of the killing sides, or becoming a lover, etc and then you'll become all scheme-y OH WAIT, this logic has already been used, regardless of how valid it may be. <_<

Well, then, now that we’re using this clear train of logic let me now logically refute everyone else In the game in the same fashion:

‘INSERT NAME HERE,

my only concern about you being Oldie would be that SOMETHING to change alliance will prolly happen to you this first night, whether it's a recruitment to either of the killing sides, or becoming a lover, etc and then you'll become all scheme-y

’

Your argument seems to be: "whatever side you're on you'll argue logically for to cause it to win, thus I don’t trust you." Firstly, you don’t trust me because I try to make my own side win? Your logic fails you right there, in the pure sense that, when in a game with clear objectives, it can be argued that most people are going to also be trying to achieve them.

Yet, if I'm on the student's, as I more likely am than not (this is silly logic, yet true), then wouldn’t it be best to put my logic to good use? If it is true that every side would wish to convert me, then they would probably end up doing the same thing as they did to Orca, where both sides try to convert her, yet one side fails, and then killed her for it. Thus, as we see there, Orca was Jesus and just about everyone thinks they can trust Orca, thus giving the title of Oldie to someone you can supposedly trust only ended up with the vampires getting Jesus and the Oldie on their team instead of just the Oldie.

Once again, best to have a generic citizen as Oldie than risking the life of someone with actual power that could be put to evil use.

Furthermore, should I win, what with all the noise I’ve made, I’m fairly certain an intelligent Azrael would immediately check me out the first night to confirm for the town that I am what I claim to be. Furthermore, an intelligent Fenrir/Master Vampire with half a brain would hold off on converting me if that’s what they might otherwise have intended to do, knowing that the Azrael will most likely check me out, thus it is almost certain that you will either know I’m evil and outvote me in a lynch mob tomorrow, or know I’m good and get a free turn of Oldie backing before something happens to me.

Hell, a really intelligent Fenrir/Master Vampire wouldn’t convert me at all, nor would they kill me, they’d just let me rant a bit before trying to turn the mob on me with Mury’s rambling logic of: “he’s the Oldie and didn’t die, which makes him evil!” in order to get a free citizen kill. (people would use the logic of ‘he was right then, thus clearly he’s right now because people aren’t mentally capable of learning through experience and adapting tactics’)

[Felix I. Genero]

unless, of course, Grimm made you the Not Romulus/Fenrir just for the fun of it. xD

[Azrael]

...except roles are randomized.

[Roan]

I don't like the idea of Az as the Oldie.

He's far too analytical...he'll be able to sway whoever he wants to his point of view. For that reason I agree with whoever said it earlier (I'm too lazy to look) that he shouldn't have the added power of Oldie.

[Davi]

Timothy, you clearly missed how I worded a phrase.

"you'll become all scheme-y. You already have too much sway in this group, so having two votes as well seems a bit of overkill. You are logical, but you also can twist your logic to trick any person you need to"

Let me emphasize "trick". Although you don't use simple tactics like "just trust me on this", you have a good way of making people forget about their suspicions of you or who you advocate for (right or wrong) and to agree with you to misdirect or baffle. You are a pro at the mechanics of the game, but that’s not why I don’t want you to be oldie. I don't know, nor do I really care, what side you are on. I'd rather not have a person who can sway and trick many of this group to believing him/her. I'd rather the people of this group use their own logic to look at your statements, break them down, do the same with others, and then go ahead. However, you seem to either mesmerize people or have them completely ignore your arguments and post on their own (as you've said IRL to me on other occasions). Hell, even people have voted for you just because it’s you. Let me quote:
“I vote tim. i was too lazy to read his reason, but I'm sure it's full of win.” From Felix.

People have already given up on questioning you it seems. Then again, maybe my first impression isn’t fully accurate. However, being new here, I’m going to gather what info I can and piece this puzzle together as I go.

Also, I randomly thought about something … let me quote you, dear sir:

“vote myself

Reason: Now, who here is logical enough to be Oldie? Personally, I'm not inclined to believe any individual. Quite frankly, most of this entire game is just randomly guessing until the right person finally croaks, then evaluating their support networks to take an educated guess at who it really was. Quite frankly, I haven't yet seen anything but somewhat silly logic, other than the one or two people who knew, for a fact, what was what. Even then, they often don't get an effective chance to use it.”

I am quite fond of you, but you clearly dismiss anyone else’s capabilities of logic?! How kind of you. Are you honestly the only oldie capable of using logic? I have no ties to the people of this group besides maybe you, who introduced me to this site, but it seems absolutely insane to me that you would insult the players of the game. That would be like never letting Gabby (from RL) have Sheriff. She is fully capable of being a Sheriff, and I am sure that many others in this group are capable of being Oldie.

Even if y’all don’t vote me for oldie, cool beans, go ahead; but do not do so just because you are used to Azz being the only one to use logic to argue. I don’t care how badly he comes around and dissects my arguments, but do not vote for him just because he does dissect arguments. If that’s your reasoning, you might as well vote for me as well, then.

However, I doubt logic is the only reasoning for giving the title of Oldie. That's probably why people would vote, imo, because of the things other than logic, ie: personal ties, fears, expectations, or randomness.

*i apologize for rambling too much ... i had a bit of free time >.<*

[Azrael]

As I've got class for the next two and a half hours, then a short period between then and my staff meeting, which I'll prolly use to eat, I might not be able to reply to Davi before 9, so I might have to wait until tommorrow morning. ^_^

As for you, Mury, what goes on between moderator and player during the night through PMs needs to stay to PMs.